View Full Version : Getting drunk could now cost you €300
the evil belly
15-08-2003, 18:15
PEOPLE trying to enter a pub while drunk can be fined up to €300 under new laws which come into force from Monday.
In a major crackdown on alcohol abuse, public disorder and underage drinking, Justice Minister Michael McDowell has announced a raft of new laws:
These include:
* A total ban on “happy hour” promotions.
* New powers of arrest for gardaí.
* Fines of €300 for disorderly conduct.
* €1,500 fines for publicans who serve drunk customers.
* €A 300 fine for failing to leave pub when asked to do so.
As part of the Intoxicating Liquor Act, gardaí will be able enter licensed premises in plain clothes from next week.
Landlords will also be allowed to raise the age of entry to over 18, thereby allowing them to legally exclude younger drinkers.
Publicans found supplying alcohol to drunk customers or permitting drunkenness or disorderly conduct, face fines of €1,500.
Further provisions, to be introduced in September, will give pub owners the discretion to exclude under 18s at any time. They will be obliged to do so after 9pm.
From next month, people aged 18-20 will be obliged to carry an age document with them in licensed premises. The controversial transfer of alleged discrimination cases involving licensed premises from the Equality Tribunal to the District Court will be introduced on September 29. Closing times on Thursday will revert to 11.30pm on that date as well.
Proposals by Justice Minister Michael McDowell in April for hand-held video cameras to be given to gardaí to help enforce this and other acts are also under consideration.
Reid Professor of Law at Trinity College Dublin, Ivana Bacik, said there could be legal difficulties with some of the provisions.
“I can foresee challenges being brought against these laws. How do you decide what is a drunken person? The legislation has a very loose definition with no measurement as such. It doesn’t require people to be breathalysed.
“These new laws are just a knee-jerk reaction and are not going to help the long-term problem of drunkenness.”
She said it was dangerous not to have provisions in the legislation to cover valid reasons why someone who was drunk might seek entry to a pub.
Aisling Reidy of the Irish Council for Civil Liberties said she couldn’t see how the law on drunkenness could be enforced.
“If the drunkenness is not accompanied by violence or some public disorder I don’t see where the offence is,” she said
from here (http://www.examiner.ie/pport/web/ireland/Full_Story/did-sgF7OPdaN2ICMsg7OWirIStPSk.asp)
Patrik_Flame
15-08-2003, 19:07
as long as they dont put the legal limit up to 21 i dont mind
the evil belly
15-08-2003, 19:34
to be honest i think they should. i did my fair share of underage drinking but it's gone out of control now
happy joy joy
15-08-2003, 23:48
that nes act is a crock of shit! it is flawed. not that i care about the under age thing anymore because in a little over a mth i wont be but its crap like getting rid of happy hour and a few othere things :wakko:
the evil belly
16-08-2003, 10:59
it says nothing about beer promotions now does it. there's ways and means around every law
keep the 'happy hour'...christ thats harmless.
the evil belly
16-08-2003, 16:30
i suppose it's an attempt to curb binge drinking
the outlaw torn
16-08-2003, 23:05
some of those new laws are stupid, some are good tho, like the disorderly conduct fine. but the serving drunk people one is stupid, isn't every one slightly drunk after a few drinks. how do you define drunkness? whats too drunk and whats slightly drunk?
The law says you can no longer offer alcohol promotions which are only valid over a certain period of time [i.e. Happy Hour or Bear The Clock] ... which is a bit unnecessary if you ask me, the not serving "drunk" people bit is what gets me though, it is now illegal to get drunk in a pub - isn't that what they're there for? There's a social aspect as well obviously but people who want a quiet drink know and avoid the pubs where there will be lots of silly drunk people... there's never particularly been a problem with it [I think] - The minister is trying to create a problem in people's minds so he can be seen to have solved it
happy joy joy
17-08-2003, 22:46
not serving drunk ppl? what most bar staff will just say not you have you share go home and a bonser wont let you in if drunk. what the goverment up to? as ciaran said the minister is trying to create a problem so he can be seen to fix it.
(From next month, people aged 18-20 will be obliged to carry an age document with them in licensed premises)
that part is ok but this part
(Landlords will also be allowed to raise the age of entry to over 18, thereby allowing them to legally exclude younger drinkers.) is a crock of shit! that is discrimanation. could you just think of if you where in your 30s r more and you went to go in to a pub to get a drink and you where told no because you r to old. thats the other side of the fence and there has been meny a compainy in court over it.
do the goverment want to stay in power? i meanit is a well known fact to you have to keep the youth on your side.
p.s last night i walked into an offie and i got loads of drink 4 me and my friends so fuck u minister ya fucking knob jockie
Originally posted by ciaran
The law says you can no longer offer alcohol promotions which are only valid over a certain period of time [i.e. Happy Hour or Bear The Clock] The poor old 'Bear', cruelty to animals ?
Isn't raising the age to enter a pub discrimination ? I find it funny that there seems to be a complete turn around about this. Before clubs were able to say it was an over 21's place, and then they had to change the rules, and now we are back to square one ?
There are alot of problems in Ireland in relation to the consumption of alcohol. One of the main ones I think is the way that the police force (gardaí) handle the problem. If people know that they can get away with acting silly and disorderly when they are drunk, they will always continue to do it. Pissing in public places, wrecking trees, bins and stealing cones , singing and shouting all should be things that the gardaí should bring drunk people up about. Stop them in the street, take their details and fine them , on the spot. If they think they are giving false details then book them and bring them to the station.
But this thing of not letting people enjoy alcohol is not the way to go. You cannot drink in a public place anymore , you can't drink on the bus, you have to be on a licenced (overpriced) premises. You cannot drink in a pub after 12pm or in a club after 2am, not much room for freedom of choice and free trade there is there ?
The drinking age is fine, (I think it should maybe be even lower for beer) , maybe the voting age should be reduced to 16. Then (more) young people will take an interest in this damn country ! !
Cemetry Slut
18-08-2003, 01:43
In italy its legal at 16.I was totally amazed at this..and you still dont see 16 year olds falling out of the pubs drunk over there because there isnt the big hype of "alcohol" as in ireland.. If Alcohol consumption was looked at in a "nicer" liberal way i think we wouldnt be having this problem.. or maybe we do just becasue where "irish" we all know that why there is a big underage drinking problem is because its illegal..
if they make it harder to get alcohol for underages you can bet there'll be more uneragers on the streets "drunk"
Damn Government...
And those poor publicians..
I prob make no sence to you but I cant make it into a post what i want to say.. Expression is missing here. :(
F**k this government, cause all their doing is f**king us.
Patrik_Flame
18-08-2003, 16:27
how were you totally amazed by that lorns? are you living in a little ireland shell where the laws of ireland apply to the universe :P
In poland there isnt really any laws for drinking. also theres a reason why kids arent falling around drunk, a lot has to do with the danger factor, alot of kids are attracted to underage drinking because its "bad" or "rebellious" when the legal limit is 12 then there isnt much point to this rebellion.
same way as in holland, in the areas where marijuana was legalized, the amount of nationals smoking it went down, it was no longer taboo, so it was no longer exciting.
Pubs are still alowed ro run promotions with the drinks industry, like free beers or two for the price of one. Well thats what I heard on the news. Maybe pub owners just have to be inventive ;)
the evil belly
18-08-2003, 19:13
or rotate special offers on different beers every day
You never saw Bear The Clock? It's an experience...
Originally posted by ciaran
You never saw Bear The Clock? It's an experience... I was probably drunk at the time.
This also means that we can't have any more cheap nights in Nancy's anymore :'( grrrrrrr :mad:
In Lanzarote, in one of the pubs in Puerta Del Carmen, there was an offer where you buy one Smirnoff Ice, get one free. And they only cost €1.50!
The more the government fights underage drinking, the more determined under-age people will get, as far as I can see. My experiences with binge drinking are few and far between, but I never really enjoyed drinking vodka straight from a bottle in a bathroom. In fact, I hate it and really don't intend doing it again. (Sorry Deb, you're out of a job ;)!)
But there are ways around everything, it's just a case of finding them. The government seems to be going overboard, what with the impending smoking ban and everything. Soon no-one will be able to smoke or get drunk on nights out. Fun...
Cemetry Slut
18-08-2003, 21:47
you know what i ment pa
cockatrice
18-08-2003, 22:24
i am so outraged! thats so unfair i want to reiterate everything faith just said, evrything patrick_flame said and especially what demios said. i think il make a few posters with that on it!
the evil belly
21-08-2003, 22:30
i was in the ginger man on fenian street in dublin on tuesday night and rebel red was 2.55 a pint and blarney blonde was 2.30 a pint. different names but it was them cos i asked. they did jugs of rebel red for 9.50
Three of my friends were in Temple Bar last weekend around lunch time and tried to order tea at the bar, and they were asked for ID ! When will this lunacy stop ?
They asked for ID for TEA?!
In Scotland, they're taking the opposite approach. They're proposing to keep pubs open 24/7 in an affort to stop binge drinking.
the evil belly
21-08-2003, 22:50
temple bar is a strange spot at the best of times
Still asking for tea at 3pm on a Sunday afternoon merits asking them for ID ? The bar staff said that they had to have ID to be in the pub !
Anyone on for a trip over to Scotland ?
happy joy joy
21-08-2003, 23:52
what a fuck up! i take it your friends look over 18, 2? you could say something if they where 13 14 r so and just wanted them to leave. but 3 in the day asking 4 tea???
Sometimes in bars you just get people who think that they have a little power and want to put you in your place. And yes they are over 18.
got asked for id when ordering pints of coke in the afternoon in a few pubs in cork
Cemetry Slut
24-08-2003, 03:12
i got thta too.. so annoying
Martin Luther King had a dream. Minister Martin and MacDowell have a nightmare. Imagine an ireland in which nobody drinks or smokes.
An Ireland of shiny happy people who leap out of bed EVERY moring and ruch enthusiastically to work. At lunch, they pore over health-food magazines while munching on lettuce leaf, and all day long greet everyone with gleaming hollywood smiles.
At 7pm having worked two hours overtime at th office "work place" they go to the gym for a relaxing evening work out.
Then its home to bed and fast asleep as soon as the lights go offf- for by then, some scientist will have shown that sex is bad for your health..
The Ireland of the future....??
It would be enoguh to drive you to drink...
If I am drunk in my own home, I should probably stagger down to the local garda station or get a taxi there, and handy myself in for drinking too my of the nectar. While I am at it I should probably take the oppertunity to pay for all the other times that I was drunk too.
Seeing as they don't need a blood/urine test isn't the fact of being 'drunk' very subjective. Some people's faces go red when they drink, while some people just wear too my blusher. Some people slur their speech when they are pissed, while others are like that due to dental problems.
Your blusher?
i got fairly twisted tonight adn noone threw me out despite knockin a table and all (have often knocked tables sober, in fact i spill mmre sober than not).
very hard to judge
i also hear that there might be a solution for 'BEAT THE CLOCK' too . So all hope is not lost completly.
Cemetry Slut
24-08-2003, 03:37
So,What are teh facts? as we are wndlessly reminded, alcohol consumption has indeed risen by 40% since the early 90's though last year saw a "slight" decline. but the economy grew over 50%...in the same period.so we are actaully spending a smaller proportion of our incomes on alcohol then we did ten years ago.. moreover, back in 1990 when the rapid increase in our alcohol intake began, the irish drank less, on average then most other europeans.. our consumption was 8 litres per annum of pure alcohol per person...compared to just under 11litres in france same with hungarians,spanih.portuguese,Czechs and danes still consume ten litres more or pure alcohol per year... yet nobody accuses them of having a "Dysfunctional relationship with alcohol" or muses darkly about alcohol abuse as something embedded in their national soul... so why us?
There is alot to be said for the social aspect of alcohol comsumption in ireland. Years ago the pubs were the only place a man could go to get away from the wife. It was a refuge of sorts for them. There wasn't much else to do , esp. in rural Ireland. If they couldn't go to the pubs they would get depressed.
Many Irish people don't have the same respect that other nations do for alcohol * . Fine other europeans like to enjoy it but they don't go out with the objective of getting pissed.
* broad sweeping generalisation
Cemetry Slut
24-08-2003, 03:52
thats true.. but getting pissed is a bloody past time and controled pissing is harmless.
i mean how many more law men on the streets to enforce this new law..while other things like..houses getting ropped, hardcore drugs and rapes etc get no eys on.. its stupid..
stairway 2 hell
25-08-2003, 00:16
ok those laws were supposed to be effective as of monday. i was in dublin all week and we went to a pub where they sold cheap bear by the pitcher and there was no hastle from bartenders or bouncers about drinking to much or shit like that so i'd say its gonna be a while before theyre properly enforced.
Cemetry Slut
25-08-2003, 01:13
oh better still never enforced.. dublin lawmen much more leanient towards alcohol..the problems concering cocain and herion is seen as a much more of a problem!
the evil belly
25-08-2003, 18:37
Originally posted by Cemetry Slut
oh better still never enforced.. dublin lawmen much more leanient towards alcohol..the problems concering cocain and herion is seen as a much more of a problem!
that would explain the unmarked transit van full of riot cops the lives in temple bar every night. i've passed it many a time and seen cops getting in an out of it. at least a dozen cops sitting all night in a van and not even providing a visible detterent to street crime
Cemetry Slut
26-08-2003, 19:53
ya with work i do traget projects with temple bar and and farranree.. its unbelieveable how many people have fallin for the drug..
The guards training is unbelievible aswell!
dublin gaurds sont give a hoot about alcohol or class b/c drugs.. i mean they do care but the problems of hard drugs have risen by nearly 15% in dublin.
lets all go to dublin to get drunk??
the evil belly
27-08-2003, 18:48
i think u misread my last post cem. dublin cops do give a fuck in a big way about alcohol. it causes most of their problems at weekends. the average cop on the street isn't involved in hard drug raids etc. so they get kept quiet before hand
penelope
30-08-2003, 01:36
ok so yes, i agree with demios! the goverment is fucking us over! if they bring the drinking age up to 21, i am moving! im 16 and i dont believe its fair to not leave us decide ourselves to drink(ok i know it wouldnt work here but in a load of countries it does! ) but yet we can make subject choices and do exams that ruin our lives at this age!
the price of everything is ridiculous! have ye heard that they're planning to bring in taxes on fatty foods!
i agree with the no smoking ban! in my moms time people were able to smoke on buses! but it is unfair on the people losing their jobs!
these taxes are all about the money! i believe our goverment is corrupt! the first people they gave payrises as to themselves!!!!!!!!!!! they are getting more than the american president!!! why are we as a country putting up with this shit?? :confused: :( :confused:
Originally posted by penelope
in my moms time people were able to smoke on buses!
I remember when you could smoke on buses... my god I'm old... it was horrible!
happy joy joy
30-08-2003, 16:21
Originally posted by penelope
why are we as a country putting up with this shit?? :confused: :( :confused:
because the ppl who can make a diferance dont care because there getting money 2. and the average person can not do much unless there is is a mass movement and ppl work 2getter. but we dont it not just the govement that is fucking us over we r fucking each other over :wakko:
the evil belly
31-08-2003, 18:39
Originally posted by penelope
ok so yes, i agree with demios! the goverment is fucking us over! if they bring the drinking age up to 21, i am moving! im 16 and i dont believe its fair to not leave us decide ourselves to drink(ok i know it wouldnt work here but in a load of countries it does! ) but yet we can make subject choices and do exams that ruin our lives at this age!
the price of everything is ridiculous! have ye heard that they're planning to bring in taxes on fatty foods!
i agree with the no smoking ban! in my moms time people were able to smoke on buses! but it is unfair on the people losing their jobs!
these taxes are all about the money! i believe our goverment is corrupt! the first people they gave payrises as to themselves!!!!!!!!!!! they are getting more than the american president!!! why are we as a country putting up with this shit?? :confused: :( :confused:
i agree with taxes on fast food. it's going to kill us all, that said i do eat too much maccy d's
happy joy joy
31-08-2003, 21:06
tax on fast food? if it kills you its your failt! :wakko:
i concur, its prob not so much a tax on fat as a tax on dopiness.
allow us to be dumb
Of course if you have a tax on fatty food which goes directly to the department of health you end up in the strange position where the department of health will want people to eat fatty food to get more money for themselves...
i think the tax is on anything in a polystyrene container. it's a litter thing as far as i know. along the same vein as the plastic bag levy. was in the pub tonight and my eyes are destroyed from the smoke. am quite looking forward to the smoking ban coming in. (whilst awaiting the terrible backlash from smokers on the board)
I can't wait either, it'll make it much more enjoyable going to the pub...
We were talking about this in work today, and the general consensus was that a smoke in a pub adds greatly to the ambience. It's all part and parcel of going out, really. It would feel weird without smoke, IMO.
happy joy joy
01-09-2003, 22:03
faiths right. smokingis part of goiung out
Originally posted by Faith
We were talking about this in work today, and the general consensus was that a smoke in a pub adds greatly to the ambience. It's all part and parcel of going out, really. It would feel weird without smoke, IMO. Same was said for going to cinema a over decade ago. Now it is completely removed , no one really misses it and cinema numbers haven't fallen.
Same goes for planes, even though i think the russian planes areoflot still allow some smoking if i remember correctly.
All of these were done for health/safety reasons.
Smoking and pubs are a bond that simply cannot be broken in my opinion.
I feel truly sorry for smokers who are being bullied into quitting or forcing them to find other ways to enjoy themselves any night of the week.
Originally posted by Demios
Smoking and pubs are a bond that simply cannot be broken in my opinion. ask some old people about cinemas , it was exactly the same years ago.
happy joy joy
02-09-2003, 22:40
but ppl where not forced out of the cinema. plus last time i went out it was to the cinema:wakko:
They weren't allowed smoke in the cinemas any more! Same as the pubs now...
Originally posted by ciaran
They weren't allowed smoke in the cinemas any more! Same as the pubs now... tenses ;)
I think happy missed my point. Up until the 1980's you could smoke on planes , in cinemas and other places, like McDonalds.
People thought it was alright to smoke in the cinema. But it was banned after some fires (I think in Dublin, when the carlton burned down) were stared by smokers killing and injuring people. So it was banned for health reasons. Similar situation with the airplanes.
We now know alot more about the effects of smoking and passive smoking , and the government needs to be seen to protect workers. High concentrations of smoke in pubs can increase the chance of cancer for pub workers
happy joy joy
04-09-2003, 00:25
ya kind but my hole doc in it that time:) ohhhhh welllllllll! but 2 be honest its not gonna make a diferance to me ether way as i dont smoke and dont mind ppl smoking around me:wakko:
stairway 2 hell
04-09-2003, 00:30
Originally posted by Faith
We were talking about this in work today, and the general consensus was that a smoke in a pub adds greatly to the ambience. It's all part and parcel of going out, really. It would feel weird without smoke, IMO.
just something to add there how do you think the pulling pints for ten or twelve hours feel about the "atmosphere"?
How do the pints feel? :confused:
happy joy joy
04-09-2003, 20:57
sad and left out the poor poor pints! :wakko:
I'm not trying to cause an argument, but they don't have to work in pubs if they're that against it.
happy joy joy
04-09-2003, 22:22
ya i wa going 2 say that 2. dont work there if you feel like that! :wakko:
the outlaw torn
04-09-2003, 23:40
some one told me the other day that the traditional irish pub crawl is now gone cause of the no serving drink to drunk people part of the new law. so if you go to one pub for a few pints then leave for the next pub you should be stopped at he door cause you'd be called drunk!
In summary its more bullshit poltics.
Originally posted by Faith
I'm not trying to cause an argument, but they don't have to work in pubs if they're that against it. Isn't that putting the blame on the people that are effected rather than the people who cause the problem. (you won't win this argument ;))
effect the effectors that was always my moto.
happy joy joy
05-09-2003, 10:24
its also 1 you wont win! :wakko:
the evil belly
05-09-2003, 18:54
Originally posted by Faith
I'm not trying to cause an argument, but they don't have to work in pubs if they're that against it.
you're entitled to a safe workplace, smoke of any type is a health hazard in any location. people can't smoke in office buildings and no one objects. if nothing else i'll enjoy the fact that when i get home i won't reek of stale smoke
Cemetry Slut
05-09-2003, 23:07
whats really getting to me about the smokeing law is that prisons and hopsitals like old folk homes have a no smoking rule.. i mean come on how much of the irish poulatin above 50 smoke? and the prisoners have their cig to calm them down. its bullshit. What about the poor woman who has cancer "not related by smoking" but needs her fag to calm her nerves.. its BULL!!:moo: :moo: :moo:
the evil belly
07-09-2003, 12:43
have you ever worked in those hospitals? i have and it's fucking hell, you actually can't see the far side of the room because of the smoke. these care units will set up smoking areas just as hospitals did when it was banned there. and as for prisoners well thats their own fault
Originally posted by Faith
I'm not trying to cause an argument, but they don't have to work in pubs if they're that against it.
take it you weren't one of those ppl who found it impossible to get a job this summer. some ppl dont have much choice about where they work. ppl shouldt be forced to breathe filth just coz you think it adds to the atmosphere of the only place they found a job
happy joy joy
07-09-2003, 18:35
thats all and good. you work in macy ds, right r did? where they hireing ppl this summer? y not work there insted of a pub? r other fast food places. y? because no1 really wants to work there but they will risk there health and complane about it! insted of taking the plunge:wakko:
Lord Raath
08-09-2003, 23:31
People that work in pubs should not have to breath other peoples smoke, its bad for them. We all know this. So whats the problem?
I love going out, the majority of my friends smoke, I dont. Does the smoke bother me? Yes, but I put up with it because I enjoy meeting my friends in a social atmosphere. If they cant smoke will the atmosphere be destroyed? Hell no, we have had a ball in some of the most boring places on earth, its the people that make the pub, not the drink and fags. Anyone that has a "local" should know what I mean.
I think the whole "If they dont want to breath smoke they should work somewhere else" argument is one of the most selfish I have ever heard. Every single one of us is intitled to a safe place of work. If your employer does not provide you with one you have the right to legal recourse. Why should it be different for barworkers? The fact it never was, but our culture left them feeling that what they had was as good as it gets. Not fair and not true.
As for the new drink laws, forget them, we will find ways around them. We have been doing so since we were about 15-16, even younger in some cases! A 21 year old friend of mine was stopped at a club cause he was wearing runners. He shrugged his shoulders, asked the bouncers if he went home and changed them would they let him in, they said yes, he said he would see us in 30 minutes and headed off. We saw him 30 minutes later wearing shoes. Life goes on...
Personaly I am compleatly against underage and binge drinking, in theory. The problem is Im a hypocrite, cause I did the first and still do the second. But I can take the moral high ground and say that if the government can stop me binge drinking they are doing me a favor, so I welcome it. A self serving sack off bullshit, cause you can bet your ass when a bouncer tells me to piss off cause im too drunk I will bitch about it to my friends. But I WILL feel beter for it in the morning. We all know the laws will be diluted over time anyway, I think the majority of the old fogies on this board can recall some of the hardest clubs to get into in this city quite quickly becoming the underage dives.
And the circle of drinking continues...
Rant over.
Cemetry Slut
08-09-2003, 23:56
rant excellent!
Originally posted by the evil belly
PEOPLE trying to enter a pub while drunk can be fined up to €300 under new laws which come into force from Monday.
In a major crackdown on alcohol abuse, public disorder and underage drinking, Justice Minister Michael McDowell has announced a raft of new laws:
These include:
* A total ban on “happy hour” promotions.
* New powers of arrest for gardaí.
* Fines of €300 for disorderly conduct.
* €1,500 fines for publicans who serve drunk customers.
* €A 300 fine for failing to leave pub when asked to do so.
more from here (http://www.examiner.ie/pport/web/ireland/Full_Story/did-sgF7OPdaN2ICMsg7OWirIStPSk.asp)
and here! (http://www.eirjobs.com/rant/showthread.php?threadid=3136&perpage=20&pagenumber=1)
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